Our community must be made aware that the residents of this area oppose this project. Walgrove is a poor location because it is located on a busy inter-city thoroughfare and currently traffic around the school with its existing student populations of Walgrove and OCS is unmanageable. Adding a 500 seat charter school in this area will adversely impact the quality of life in the area with a massive increase in traffic, blocked driveways, double-parked cars, trespassing, vandalism, reckless pedestrians, higher noise levels, litter, greater amounts of pollution and diminished light and air quality. All of these factors will result in lowered property values and ruin the character of a pleasant neighborhood. The site does not have the potential to support another school facility. The project does not have the support of the residents of the area and ultimately, it is not in the best interests of the community.

This is a middle school - grades 4 -8. We don't have a good middle school in the area and would like more options for our children. Even if its not guaranteed that our child can attend, its an option to try. Traffic is an issue - in the am and afternoon pick up times. But it does not last long.

Having no horse in this race, our concern is mainly property value and quality of life.
Being good Democrats, we feel that paying for school once is enough, and support public education. Isn't the concept of a charter school akin to a soccermom driving a harmful, oversized, tank of a Soccermom Urban Van in order to be ahead in the vehicle tonnage arms race? One can be smart, safe, and much less harmful with a smaller vehicle. One can perhaps make one's local school smart, safe, and much less harmful by being involved as a parent, and not advocating the gutting of public education in order to support private (or is it semi-private now?) education.
Just some thoughts from a spectator and property owner.
Re: the hopes of cece below- a hopeful option to try and maybe get in your local kid is not worth this project. Your kid can get into a local public school now. Step forward and be an involved parent. Or perhaps doing so years before said kid is 3 months away from that grade.
Easy for us to say; we CHOSE not to add to the world's population. I guess you chose to do so, and decided to assume personal responsibility for so doing. Sometimes that involves an effort.
So after reading the rhetoric of the Wises, we feel that there are enough schools in our back yard, and regarding another, bigger, non-public (not really local) school, we say NIMBY!

Cheers

Charter schools are meant to break the union. They siphon off the best kids and leave those that need the most help. From the outside this looks like charters do a better job and that union teachers suck. Kinda like fed ex and UPS siphoning off all the profitable business while the post office is left with the scraps and then we are told usps doesnt work. Why not put a public magnet school in ? That is a question that is not even being asked. Divide and conquer seems to work well in our country and we are all the poorer for it.

Charter schools ARE public schools. Many are geared to help low income students in troubled neighborhoods. (Green Dot) Some are great, some are not. Many have unions. Green Dot and Ocean charter are union schools. Please do not generalize. If we are talking about Walgrove, OCS and Green Dot let's stick to them.

Sandi wise's children go to private school. Enough said.....

also, NO public LAUSD money is being used to build this charter. No public school bonds, etc. Any Charter that is applying has to find their own financing. It is very, very clear in the RFP and every meeting that has been held on this matter.

Whether someone's kids go to private school is a snide and useless remark. The bottom line is, it is already too congested in the neighborhood surrounding the school. There is not simply more traffic at the beginning and end of the school day. Since Ocean Charter has been on the premises, there have been many extra cars parked on nearby streets all day. Are they teachers' cars, other staff? I do not know, but it means residents have to drive around looking for space on our own streets. There simply isn't room for another school and all the additional stress it will put on this formerly quiet little residential neighborhood. At the earlier meeting it was mentioned that Mark Twain sits on 19 acres. This seems more reasonable than squeezing onto the 2 acre Walgrove site. Despite the negative comments at the recent meeting about how the existing public schools are inferior, blaming that on the unions, it would behoove all to improve existing schools. Get rid of the unions if need be. These charter schools further divide the haves from the have nots because not every kid will be able to benefit from them.

I would like to say that there are some good points by the neighbors about space. Mark Twain does have a lot more space and many empty classrooms. It would be a better place for either of the Charter schools.

I live in the neighborhood although not next to Walgrove Elem. I do not wish to see traffic worsen in this area either. I do have three children who've attended the local public schools. I say to you parents that want choices- put your effort into the existing local schools. Parents can make a difference, look at all that's been done to Beethoven and Walgrove Elem. The same can happen at Mark Twain if you work at it. These Charter Schools may be public schools but they are siphoning off funds that should go to the public schools, good students that should go to the public schools and space that should be used by the public schools!

To have either schools ( Green Dot or Ocean Charter) on the Walgrove campus will bring to this community important benefits which will without doubt outweigh the solvable traffic issues : it will provide up to 400 families with a choice of Public School, which they do not have now, it will positively impact the life of hundreds of children year after year, it will provide a quality and/or alternative education for hundreds of families that either can't afford private schools or believe in sending their kids to public schools and it will , without question, increase the property values in our neighborhood .
Barbara, neighbor of Walgrove, mother of a child at Walgrove and 3 children at Animo Westside Middle School

Mr. Wise,
I am very well aware of the fact that my girls will be in High School before this project might be finished....and I will still support it. This is not just about me and my children!
Yes Walgrove Ave is a mess in the mornings. I guess it serves as a major transit road between the many new apartments in the Marina and Santa Monica!
My older children went to Westwood Elementary ( much larger school than Walgrove, nestled in a very residential neighborhood) and the house prices went out of control as the school took off, with every real estate agent listing the amazing public school as a main attraction !
Almost 50% of the graduating 5th graders from last year's Walgrove class are currently enrolled at Animo Westside Middle school, which in a funny way makes Animo the neighborhood Middle School with no actual facility in Venice...go figure!
I am not sure what choices of Middle Schools in Venice you are referring to . I would be interested to see that list!
Barbara

It is clear we don’t need another middle school. As the presentation shows, there are over 1800 6th grade middle school spaces available and only 560 graduating 5th graders. Those 1800 spaces represent 9 schools within 3 miles of the Walgrove site - and those schools include several magnet and gifted programs, including Mark Twain with its World Language Magnet just 3 blocks away. There are plenty of options and plenty of space!

I agree with Leslie’s comments on traffic. I live about ½ block from the campus and am concerned by the excessive amount of cars and traffic congestion the current school adds to this tiny neighborhood. I can only imagine the daily traffic/parking disruptions that will become commonplace if a school 3 times its size is built. And this is in addition to the non-school-related people who cut through our neighborhood to avoid the traffic light and congestion at Palms and Walgrove. All of this endangers not only local residents - but the children that are currently enrolled at Walgrove.

We have heard that if local residents do not support the new initiative, then we oppose education. This is simply not true. We oppose wasting money when current resources are suitable, viable and available. We need to focus on investing in the existing public education, not expanding charter schools that are not needed.

The big misconception of many members of this forum is, that Animo Westside Middle School is just "another public middle school". It is not! Its philosophy , approach, management ,organisation is different from a LAUSD run school and much more appealing to me. Out of the same reasons some people might choose a religious school I have chosen Animo Westside as the perfect fit for our family and our daughters.Shifting my energy to Mark Twain , as Sandi suggested, will not change Mark Twain in its leadership, approach to education etc.
It all boils down to choices,but true choices.
For a parent to drive from the Marina to Walgrove to drop their child off at a Middle School of their choice is no different as a parent driving from here to the Marina to drop their child off at a private school. Same amount of miles driven, same amount of traffic created. Again, I feel very positively that a solution to the traffic can be found so it will not hugely impact the immediate neighbors.

Everyone has valid concerns and it seems that traffic is a big one. I also live half a block from Walgrove and am at home now and its very peaceful outside. Are you saying that none of you can tolerate a bit of traffic in the morning and at 3 in the afternoon so our kids can get a better education? We all have the right to make choices. Most of the people I know make the choice for private because yes, they are concerned with philosophies and curriculum but one of the biggest factors is that the school runs K-8 because no one wants to have to deal with trying to get into a "quality" middle school and want to avoid Mark Twain. Why shouldnt those of us who have chosen the public school have a middle school option? It seems you are only concerned with how it will directly affect you and not that these kids should be given a good education. I also believe in parent groups fixing up their local schools and I have done that. Walgrove Elementary wouldnt be the school it is now if a small group of parents and myself hadn't bitten the bullet and put our kids there in Kindergarten. It was a gamble that paid off. We have worked hard and got the community to come back to our local school.

(cont.) Everyone has valid concerns and it seems that traffic is a big one. I also live half a block from Walgrove and am at home now and its very peaceful outside. Are you saying that none of you can tolerate a bit of traffic in the morning and at 3 in the afternoon so our kids can get a better education? We all have the right to make choices. Most of the people I know make the choice for private because yes, they are concerned with philosophies and curriculum but one of the biggest factors is that the school runs K-8 because no one wants to have to deal with trying to get into a "quality" middle school and want to avoid Mark Twain. Why shouldnt those of us who have chosen the public school have a middle school option? It seems you are only concerned with how it will directly affect you and not that these kids should be given a good education. I also believe in parent groups fixing up their local schools and I have done that. Walgrove Elementary wouldnt be the school it is now if a small group of parents and myself hadnt bitten the bullet and put our kids there in Kindergarten. It was a gamble that paid off. We have worked hard and got the community to come back to our local school.

Many walking, riding bikes and scootering in. (carbon Footprint?..check). Are you all saying that our property values went down because Walgroves scores went up? Back to Middle School I am sorry but I am not doing the same work at Mark Twain. I’ve heard too many horror stories and am not willing to have my daughter go there while i work hard to try and make it better. She deserves more and a good PUBLIC Charter Middle school is the answer. (p.s. tax dollars are not funding Animo’s contruction. Go to http://www.greendot.org/about_us/our_supporters to see all the outside LAUSD support they have. They must have a winning formula for all Sponsorship. )For those reading this who live close to the school….WE BOUGHT A HOUSE NEAR A SCHOOL. What did we think? Change would never happen? Think about the kids who need a better education. For those who live in the neighborhood and didn’t send your kids to Walgrove and chose private, why was that? The quality of the education wasn’t good enough? We are trying to make it better and not just for ourselves. These obstacles you are putting up only hurt the kids and dare I say, “the children are our future”

I would like to know how many of the "Neighbors who care" currently have a child in a public Venice Elementary school or at Mark Twain. Just curious!

Barbara,
What does that matter? Are you suggesting that neighbors who do not have children in the a public school don't care about public education? That residents should not have a say in what happens in their community? That we should all agree with you and make sure that you are not put out by driving your kids around town to take them your selected charter school, which is your choice? That residents, some of whom have been in this area for 40+ years, should not question a major construction project planned in their backyard? The more I read your responses, it's about you... and not about what is best for the neighborhood.

Just Curious!

Eric,
I am sorry if I hit a nerve.I do not wish to engage in low blows and I realize my comment " just curious" was unnecessary.
Obviously I do think the whole neighborhood has a say in this. My point though is , that if you do not have any kids or no kids in the public school system you should stay away from suggesting to other parents that the public school choices presently available in Venice are great and sufficient!
Barbara

Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of this information. There have been many comments about home values. I can speak to that part. I am a local Venice/MarVista realtor. Have been selling homes here for 14 years and live in the Walgrove district. I also have a 3 year old that I plan on sending to Walgrove one day. I can tell you there is a new "buzz" about Walgrove Elementary. Word is that the parents have "taken their school back" and that it is a great place to send your children. More and more families are moving into the neighborhood BECAUSE of Walgrove Elementary. The success of Walgrove IS raising our home values right now, as we speak, even in this depressed economy. It seems that whenever parents get involved, do fundraisers, help out in the classrooms, build school gardens, etc. a shift happens. It's been beautiful to witness. I watched it with Coeur D' Alene Elementary years ago. Hopefully the same will happen for Mark Twain. I know so many kids in my neighborhood that are driving to Paul Revere in the Palisades for middle school. Imagine our home values if everyone felt comfortable sending their kids to Mark Twain. ~Tiffany

Hello Tiffany:
Thank you for your professional opinion. It is valuable input regarding this issue.

HOW ABOUT SOME FACTS....1 of 2

I just wanted to make sure that people understood the tax payer claim by the Wise is completely wrong. There are two types of bonds: the local bonds (measure Q, etc...) are coming out of your property taxes and are specifically NOT being used for this construction

The other types of bonds are state bonds and those are sold to the public for investment. Anyone can buy them but they are not taxes. Those are the ones used to build Animo Venice, for example. Those are the ones that Ocean has as an award, but does not have a project nor access to the money just yet, since the market is soft and the state has had a difficult time selling them.

Continued....

Part 2
One more point, that is important. Somehow this is being portrayed by the Wise and their followers as a "giveaway" of taxpayers to charters. Not only is this wrong, but the opposite is true. By law, the District should be using the local taxed bonds to serve charter students, but they are not. The should actually be building the schools themselves and offering it to Charters, but they refuse to. What they are saying instead is, look we have no classrooms to offer you as per the law, but we have plenty of land, so we'll give you some land access and then YOU build a school for us with your money. The school will belong instantly to LAUSD once it is built. Whoever builds it has to pay for it, maintain it, can occupy it indefinitely, but if you default on mortgage payments or go bankrupt then it belongs to the District and the charter has no claim to it. So the "giveaway" exists, but it is the other way around. We are giving away money and funds to a District that should be serving our students.

It is totally understandable to not want another campus on Walgrove property. The problem is when you argue your point with a lack of information it just doesn't strengthen your case. Many of your rants Eric cheapen your argument because you are so crappy to people. If I were your neighbors I would disassociate myself from your hyperbole and reorganize with another person leading the charge. You are not helping your cause, even if it is a valid one.

The above exchanges have been quite revealing. In closing, I must admit tht I am shocked and disappointed by the "Green Dotties" lack of civility toward the community's legitimate concerns regarding this project.
I do not hesitate to characterize their responses and input as hostile and arrogant. As a result they have failed and will continue to fail to engender any support from the residents with their juvenile sniping and personal attacks.
Be aware that if LAUSD does award the site to a charter operator, this operator will have to deal with the locals on a constant basis for the entire term of the land lease because, let's face it, we live here and intend to stay here.
The "Green Dotties" have clearly expressed a distastefully less than neighborly attitude, thus reinforcing our strong opposition to this project.
Be careful what you wish for. "More tears are shed over answered prayers than unanswered ones." Truman Capote via St. Teresa of Avila.

Suzy,

Think of me as you will, but if you think my 'rants" are "crappy" then you might want to refer to the snide comments that spawned my posts in the first place. If you think attacking me personally will make our group step down so a charter school can have its way, then you are mistaken.

This has become a heated argument by those who want to preserve the quality of life in our neighborhood, and those really don't care what the negative impact of a new 500 student school would have. Our research (please review PPT) indicates that this is an unnecessary project given the abundance of open classroom space, and existing school structures in the area. Plain and simple.

You probably have not had to deal with trash in your bushes, people parking in your driveway, excessive noise, illegally parked cars, double parked cars, I can go on and on. We have been abused long enough by the current charter school, I shudder to think how it could become with a major increase in student population.

I grew up in this very neighborhood (as did my Father), went to the public schools, own a business, built my home, pay taxes, so I think I have the right to voice my opinion.

When your kids are off to college (ideally), and you have long forgotten about the Walgrove campus and charter school debate, the "Neighbors Who Care" will still be living here dealing with the legacy left behind by this decision.

Respectfully,

Eric Wise

Patch is happy to have everyone openly debate this issue in the community. That's what we're here for and we welcome your comments. However, as per Eric Wise's latest post, any personal attacks on individuals on the site will not be tolerated as per our terms of service, and will be deleted. We welcome open, civilized debate. Thank you.

It is interesting to me that many parents who say they believe in the public
school system want a special school for their child because regular public
just isn't good enough for my child. The entitlement amazes me. Not only is
it a free education but now I want more, free education with choices. The
choice should be public or private; not public with choices. Fix what is
there and don't abandon the system, revive it.