by Linda Lucks
Venice is always a place of lively debate. Some people have joked, "Ask three Venetians their opinions, and you'll get four answers." Most people in the Venice community engage in civil discourse and fair play, even while strenuously disagreeing with each other. The debates are exciting and stimulating, a great example of grassroots democracy in action.
However, when people throw civility and decency out the window by engaging in questionable tactics such as personal attacks, this causes fear and, in some cases, incites violent speech and action. When civility goes, our beloved neighborhood feels it, our reputation in the City is damaged and democracy itself is threatened. It is crucial that people who wish to express their personal opinions feel safe to do so without fear of reprisal or be subjected to intimidation in person, by mail, or on the Internet. It is one of the hallmarks of our country.
This is the American way - fostered at Venice Neighborhood Council meetings where everyone is expected to follow a Code of Civility signed by board members, and free expression without interruption or intimidation is the rule.
On a national level, it has been some time since Nixon compiled his enemies list, but not so long since we watched the "swift boating" of a presidential candidate. More recently, stories of internet bullying with dire, sometimes fatal outcomes are all over the news. Undemocratic and mean-spirited behavior in Venice is unproductive and harmful and needs to be called out for what it is.
Venice is a microcosm of the world in the challenges it faces. I am saddened when the level of discourse in Venice is abandoned over any issue, but particularly the issue of what to do with homeless people on our streets. I ask myself every day what more I can do to make my community better. I give my heart and soul to Venice by volunteering on the Venice Neighborhood Council, working with and for anyone, including organizations, individuals and our elected officials with an interest in and a stake in Venice. For 20 years I volunteered to create the Venice Garden & Home Tour (coming on May 5) which benefits a neighborhood child care center and, most recently, on veterans issues and consulting for twor more of our local social service organizations whose work I have admired for decades.
Venice has always spawned creativity, drawing people with many ideas and thoughts on how to accomplish them. However, for people to come forward with constructive ideas, they must feel safe to do so. In the past we've mostly been able to work through our disagreements without invoking the kind of vitriol we see today. And I am encouraged and gratified by the outpouring of support and good cheer when discourse devolves..
I ask Venetians to seek solutions with good hearts, not with hatred; to demand more of ourselves, our neighbors, agencies, government and to come together to help solve the regional problem of homelessness, a problem of which Venice has borne more than its fair share There is so much to do and so many ways to become involved. Please look around for organizations and individuals to work with who will work in constructive ways and please don’t be afraid to speak up and come forward. We need you.
The Venice Neighborhood Council provides a safe place to express oneself, and civility is expected of all who walk through the doors. Our next meeting is on May 15, at 7 p.m. at Westminster Elementary School. I hope to see you there. It’s your Venice- Get Involved.
(for purposes of ID only, Lucks is president of the Venice Neighborhood Council and a member of the Los Angeles Board of Neighborhood Commissioners sets policy for the City’s 95 neighborhood councils.
* I say appears to be, because several of these names are untraceable and have no history of posting (or other identifiable community involvement) prior to Mr. Ryavec's time-phased PR and dirty-tricks political campaign. While I myself haven't posted here prior to hearing about this foul putsch by the Venice Snitch Association - I have posted under the same name elsewhere, for years. Judging from the bile and venom dripping from their posts, I'd argue that several of the posters to this thread are the same person, using multple aliases to achieve the appearance of numerical superiority, and chiming in for one another - once they've been thoroughly exposed, as individual personae, for their BS.
You seem to have little evidence to show for all of your poison-pen assertions. Granted, this is exactly how the FBI destroyed the Black Panthers, AIM, and others (aside from the frame-ups, and cold-blooded pre-meditated Murders, of course), during COINTELPRO. If you have doubts just ask Chris Williams, he might even have first hand knowledge.
I don't know what it's like in Pennsylvania, but where I grew up, that's asking for an ass-kicking. So, like I said (first learn to respect the community yourself, then) teach your kids to respect the community, or wait 'til they get sent home crying - for your sins.
i suppose that using everyday vernacular starts to taste weak to you, like an addict needing a fix, so you keep upping the ante on the insults, insinuations. i could care less if you stay anonymous, but it does make you chicken Sh*t. lastly- whatever happened before is the past. the next outcome will be different , we all know it. take a look at empty 3rd.. are they all with you? i doubt it.
My name is actually private property - and I use my property when and where I want to, not at your impotent demand. As far as sociopathology, your impotence and lack of success make you no less dangerous. I'm assuming the impotence, of course - based on your pent-up (outwardly directed) aggression, and lack of a life.
What I won't tolerate, is people (even you) endangering the lives of others. Of course when it comes to cowardice, you should talk - using the police and Councilman to act as your flunkies. I'm sure that all of the Code violations you raise are misdemeanors. If you had any sack, you could make an arrest yourself - something which I have done in the past, and will continue to do so in the future (as the cops are essentially worthless, in my experience - though they are pretty good at hassling the least among us for victim-less "crimes"). Rode down 3rd St. last night, twasn't empty. Though it should be said that people have shifted themselves somewhat, so that the costly and energy-intensive HID flood lights aren't shining directly on them while they're trying to sleep. My guess is that some've moved to other streets and areas unknown to the Homeless-Haters. So don't count too quickly on your phyrric victory.
http://www.pixiq.com/article/shocking-video-of-kelly-thomas-released-watch-with-caution
3rd street was deliciously clean today btw...
" i'll be sure to stay out of your way in the surf as you seem, like so may "locals"..." - Actually you need to stay out of everyones way, not just mine - its called ettiquette and RESPECT. And funny that you use "locals" in quotes. There are real locals in Venice (though I doubt you've been here long enough to know about that), and in some cases several generations worth. I don't see THEM demanding a sudden 'final solution' to the UnHoused question. And I don't "think" I own it, like you 'think' you own Venice, enough to kick out the UnHoused - I actually do, inasmuch as I take off as deep or deeper than anyone there ( BreakWater - and make my waves past the handball courts, when the shape's right), jump straight out from the center of the "T" at all sizes (the bigger the better), and know everyone out there who's anyone. As with surfing, declaring yourself the winner and yelling checkmate doesn't cut-it. "3rd street was deliciously clean today btw..." Great, we've been working with the community there to maintain the street properly, I'm glad to see UnHoused showing that they can minimize their impact. Sound's like you're learning to do the same.
1. boredom. what's your point?! your self-importance + conspiracy theories - snore! 2 you are a bully. you call me dangerous?! u have implied violence on your posts at least 3 times, once to a woman. you are a grown-a** man or an old man, don't you feel absurd fighting at your age when your wits and words fail you? i stupidly handled things that way as a younger man but i have "evolved" ha. now i choose in this order; dialogue, leave, POPO, law suit and finally defend myself by any means necessary. but don't you think we are a little old for that tuff guy? 3. you are pompous who are you to claim to be the expert on all the things you do? and talk down to everyone, and if that doesn't work than threaten them. BOOOOORING! really you are giving me surf tips at crappy breakwater? for all you know i could have grown up on the north shore. 4. hypocrisy you say i hide behind police and councilman. isn't that what adults are supposed to do? if i went out there and "handled it" you would be crying foul and then i would be the douche instead of you~ lastly i did not claim victory, i said checkmate, look it up! it seems to be important for you to claim victory, fine u r WINNING! i know you'll need to get a last word in with some of your didactic, unsolicited advice. go for it. just know it will be unheeded and probably laughed at.
If you feel a comment has crossed the line, please click on the "Flag as inappropriate" button on the top right of it and I'll be notified of it. Everyone who leaves a comment is part of this public forum. If you believe threats are being made, please act accordingly. Thanks.
I don't see enough voices here to mount an electoral challenge, and doubt that some of them are even actual people (or perhaps it's just more than one name per actual poster) - but the repeated reiterations of the BIG LIE do have the potential to make the impressino that this is how Venice feels - to people like yourself, who know nothing of Venice. And hence, Fire-with-Fire.
SO Miss-thing, do what you like. I don't feel like I've crossed any lines here. I simply informed you of the reality, of what ACTUALLY happens down on the beach, when people come around DISRESPECTING the LOCALS. As someone who personally practices Non-Violence, it isn't how I would handle things, but I'm not capable of stopping everything that occurs, because I'm not always there. And it should be said that there are metaphorical ass-kickings on the internet, and real-world beat-downs. I handed you the former and not the latter, so put on your big girl pants, and quit your crying.
"2 you are a bully. you call me dangerous?! u have implied violence on your posts at least 3 times, once to a woman." Not really dude, in fact, I would argue that your poltical campaign/ Interenet abuse against the UnHoused (who lack the political clout/interent time - to defend themselves) is the epitome of bullying. In fact I'm standing up for those who can't defend themselves adequately against YOUR bullying, and that of POLITCAL CONSULTANT Mark Ryavec. I'm still not sure that Swank -Girl is really a female at all - or that she ACTUALLY exists as such. And no I didn't make any "threats" against her. Did I publish 'her' address on the internet and encourage people to drop by? "3. you are pompous" - Well I supoose that YOU would KNOW, and recognize (and dislike) in others, the traits which you subconciously hate about yourself. Frankly, I don't find that trait of yours very appealing either. "who are you to claim to be the expert on all the things you do?" I don't CLAIM, I just am. I've been surfing for more than 37 years now, and have competed on the North Shore - holding my own against people universally acknowledged as "Masters" at places like 'the Banzai Pipeline', so while debating or assailing the point may give you some odd joy, it doesn't change the reality, which I well know.
I talk down to people that either ARE beneath me, or act in such a way that they place themselves there. I suppose to you, that some recent Yuppie-wannabe-emigre' from Pennsylvania, stands on the same level with people who've been Venetians for generations, and ACTUALLY know and represent the community. I didn't threaten anyone, I hand down internet-slaps the way some Black-Shorts (Hui) hand them out in the line-up - on an as-needed basis. "BOOOOORING!" - And yet somehow the fascination never ends, for you. "really you are giving me surf tips at crappy breakwater? for all you know i could have grown up on the north shore." No actually I didn't give you any surf tips, because that might encourage you to do something you aren't ready for. And you're right - The BreakWater NEVER gets any good. Certainly the Beaches And Harbors sand-replenshment projects have negatively affected the shape there. Growing up on the North Shore doesn't mean you can surf. And I don't recall Terry Ahue introducing me to you. But perhaps you're the only decent surfer in SoCal that I don't know by name. Are you really Andy Lyons (the Dad from the Subaru commercial) - and if so, why are you militating for such an obnoxious project? Andy's actually quite cool, and from Malibu, so I'm guessing NOT.
you say i hide behind police and councilman. isn't that what adults are supposed to do?" Not at common law - but the root of that is the 'Golden Rule' - which you appear to have no concept of based on your offensive campaign against the least among us... "if i went out there and "handled it" you would be crying foul and then i would be the douche instead of you~" Wow, name-calling, very mature of you. However, if you actually made a lawful arrest, I would have at least a minimum of respect for you - because you would then be assuming the liability for your actions/desires - not foisting it off on the tax-payers and the city. "lastly i did not claim victory, i said checkmate, look it up!" As far as I know, in Chess - check mate is a victory as opposed to the stalemate you've played yourself into.
Winning will be when the privileged and self-righteous members of the community (you might resemble some of them) back-off, and respect the rights of the UnHoused to simply exist in Venice - as they always have. Your GF "SwankGirl" seems to think that they need to be shipped off to the Valley (I guess SLUM LORD Ryavec may have a financial interst in all this, someplace, too) to some crappy apartment, with no access to the boardwalk or Coast. Laugh now, pay later. I could care less about your opinions generally, as I know that they reflect those of a minority in Venice.
Frankly, I seen this technique from trolls before - say something provocative and inflammatory, then take great offense, and react shocked, SHOCKED at the response, regardless of how mild. Odd that the moderator seems to be taking your side in all of this. Consdiering that the context in which my posts are plain as day, several of them leaning heavily on Ad Hominem and baseless attacks, masked profanity etc.
What I see here (in the posts from you side of the board) are most if not all of the traits of the disinformationalist http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/disinfo.html#twentyfive particularly: 2. Become incredulous and indignant. 4. Use a straw man. 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. 6. Hit and Run. - In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint. 9. Play Dumb. - No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. 24. Silence critics. etc., etc..
I think you've been fooled by the Social Service folks. They are not your friends. You are somebody they can count as 'homeless' so they can get more funding. They don't want you to ever be in a better environment. They want you living on the street so they can point to you and say - 'see, we need more funding'.
I'm fighting for people to have their rights respected by the gentrifying carpetbaggers who've taken over our corrupt local "government". "If it's the right to set up a homeless encampment on 3rd ave and allow people to sleep on the street unmolested - that seems like a lose lose to me. " People set up their own tents, I'm simply assuming that they have the right to exist, in the place where they happen to be. I don't see how that's a loss for anyone. "The police have already moved folks off of 3rd street so seems like a loss" You're misinformed about the situation on 3rd st. I saw at least two dozen folks there last night. I'm not Charlie Sheen, I don't constantly check the win/loss column. When I do, I make sure that the score is accurate. "We don't want people sleeping on the street - not because we hate homeless people - but because we'd rather see people in shelters/programs/homes." So you say. But there are no shelter beds anywhere near the Westside, not everyone qualifies for them, or wants to live under the rules and treatment they receive in them, and I take the position that cannot be treated coercively, to satisfy your (stated - as opposed to observed,) desires. Great, well your pal Ryavec seems to have the Councilman's ear, so I wish you luck with that, assuming your right in your assessment - but that doesn't seem like a reasonable assumption.
I think that is the long and the short of it. if you cared about these folks, in reality, you wouldn't first have pushed them out of their cars, and onto the streets - from which you now want them removed, as well. It's not like they can live out in the unincorporated areas of the county - as we saw just a few months ago, with the removal of a shanty-town out there, by County officials. "increases noise/nuisance/crime " Housed folks are noisy too. Housed folks commit crimes, too - though the presence of walls between them and the world, mean that they are more likely to get away with it. I find the wave of gentrifiers seeking to remove their neighbors to skid row or the valley to be a nuisance. "we want people to have a roof over their heads." Well the Storage space between 3rd &4th , Rose and Sunset, seems like anawfully big land-bank. Perhaps we can use that to create the no-income housing that these folks need. I'll leave it ot you to rally your neighbors to the cause. That done, and with Ryavec's backing, certainly Bill will be close behind. "We can be concerned about our personal property/safety" People sleeping on the street are no threat to your property or safety.
Wrong. "They are not your friends." I've met some of them. They seem like decent folks - unlike the disingenuous carpetbaggers and gentrifiers who've been hijacking our local political process, for more than a decade now. " You are somebody they can count as 'homeless' so they can get more funding." What makes you think that I'm homeless? "They don't want [them] to ever be in a better environment. They want [them] living on the street so they can point to you and say - 'see, we need more funding'. I call bullshit, on that. MOre likely than that, is that Ryavec (and the grouping around him) is(are) acting as a shill for large real estate speculators, who 'bought low', thanks to the character and 'ambiance' of the neighborhood (which has always had its fair share of the UnHoused and working class folks - in my lifetime), and now want to 'sell high' after removing the folks that helped them buy-in 'on the cheap'.
I agree to that end only to the extent that those folks want to "transition off the street ". If the terms and conditions of that deal don't pass withthem, then they won't fly with me either. If you really cared about this stuff, my guess is that you would be looking at WHY people are on the street in the first place (and try to put aside all of your broad-brush pathologizing of these people - and look at the system which creates the UnHoused population, as a function of the monetary/moral/political economy, when you do so). "If however you are seeking services that enable people to stay on the street comfortably and indefinitely than you will always be at odds with the 'housed' residents." I know for a fact, that you do not speak for all Housed [things identified by government]. Those just and moral people, will seek to ease the suffering of the least among us, regardless of where they happen to be - and for unselfish reasons.
- I hear there are plenty of open beds but they all the way up on Lincoln (and yes, there are rules). I'd like to know the real story here - if there are beds people should be in them. If there aren't beds we should work together get more. - I don't know much about Mark Ryavek's personal finances but I'd guess Steve Clare and his crew make plenty of money from real estate transactions like what you describe above. - Housed folks do commit crime and make noise. If you put 20 'housed' folks on 3rd they would make a mess. After a night of drinking they'd probably commit stupid crimes and harass people. The un-housed aren't much different from the housed (un-housed might have more drug/alcohol and mental health issues) - that's the point - nobody should be sleeping out on the street. - I would like to know more about the causes of the homeless here in Venice. What is the split between the truly down and out, drug/alcohol abusers, mental health issues, gutter punks, and homeless 'by choice'? Some can and should be helped. Some are beyond help. Some don't want help.
- Gentrification is a done deal. The genie is out of the bottle. I certainly don't (and never claimed to) speak for all of the 'housed' residents in Venice - but I would guess the tide is turning across most of Venice. Sympathy/acceptance for the 'un-housed' is definitely waning. As real estate prices (and property taxes) increase the residents will continue to expect a 'safer' environment for them and their families. You can't stop it. Nobody can stop it. I would suggest it might be a better tact to have the un-housed do a better job of self regulating. Keeping streets clean, not drinking in public, smile and say hello. It would send a much better message then 'hey, we've always been here so leave us the F alone' - Finally - and most importantly - how would you suggest we stop the migration of the 'un-housed' from other parts of LA and the rest of the West. Even if we came together and solved the 'problem' in a way that works for the residents and the un-housed currently here in Venice - how do you stop more people from coming? I think you might also agree that the 'gutter punks' that are relocating here from out of town are the ones that do the most damage to the un-housed cause by committing more violent/drug related crimes.